Smyrnacoins » 30-June-2022 4:45pm

Karamanoglu, Seyfeddin Suleyman, Ermenek, (761 AH.)

charm » 30-June-2022 5:01pm

Dear Smyrnacoins, would you be so kind to tell more about this ruler?

Smyrnacoins » 1-July-2022 11:12am

Sayf al-Din Sulayman Beg 755-762 AH. 1354-1361 CE.

Sayf al-Din Sulayman Beg, son of Ala al-Din Khalil Beg, was also the nephew of the last Karamanid ruler Musa Beg. His ruler must have been started at 755 AH. / 1354 CE. contrary to the general idea.

Sulayman Beg, despite being forced to share the crown with his brother, didn't have too many problems with his brother Ala al-Din, who was in Sikari. In the period that Musa Beg was alive and in foolowing times it is seen that Sulayman and Ala al-Din was cooperating. While Sulayman was staying in Larende, ruling center of the principality, Ala al-Din was more concerned at military issues. That period was full of conflicts. Ala al-Din Beg stepped in the crown fights of Eretnids, which started after the death of Ala al-Din Eretna.

charm » 1-July-2022 11:28am

Dear Smyrnacoins, thank you!
But I don't understand who was Karamanid ruler Musa Beg. We do not have him in the Karamanid section, and last Karamanid ruler here is Pīr Aḥmad, 869-871 (we are using Album's Checklist).

Smyrnacoins » 1-July-2022 11:36am

To understand this period well, it is necessary to analyze well the relations of Karamanid-Eretnid and the fights for the ruling of the area. Despite being the younger one Mehmed Beg was made to sit the throne after the death of Ala al-Din Eretna in Rajab 753 AH. and was later eliminated by the Eretnid amirs, who made his bigger brother Ja'far Beg sit the throne. Therefore he had to run away to Konya and took refuge with the brother of Ala al-Din Da'ud, who was in Konya then. According to Sikari, there was a very good relationship between Mehmed and Ala al-Din, who studied together in Konya for 3 years (or 13 years) Despite all the warnings of his elder brother Sulayman, Ala al-Din had become a part of this conflict and with Eretnid Amirs such as Hodja Ali and Amir Sayyid, he gave the requested support to Mehmed Beg against one of the Mongol begs Hadji Kutlushah. As a result of a series of complicated events, Karamanogullari who are thought not to be accepted by the people of Konya and thought to be weak, lost the city, as Hadji Kutlushah conquered it probably in 755 AH. / 1354 CE. and Mehmed Beg, who was allowed to stay here by Karamanids, had to escape to Sivas.

Konya stayed under the domination of rebellious Eretnid Amirs until the year 759 AH. when Mehmed Beg consolidated the throne by eliminating his rivals and in that date or a little later city was taken back by Ala al-Din and Sulayman and three months later Sulayman, saying that would not be right to stay together in Konya, left the throne of Konya to Ala al-Din Beg to obtain and returned to Larende. The relations between Ala al-Din and Mehmed bin Eretna started to collapse and the circumstances that were due to the murder of Sulayman Beg in Larende demonstrate that Mehmed Beg was not to give up Konya easily to Ala al-Din. Until the year 762 AH. when Atabeg, one of the Eretnid amirs, conquered it, Konya stayed under the rule of Karamanid Ala al-Din Beg.

charm » 1-July-2022 11:45am

Thank you for detailed answer! But who was mentioned "last Karamanid ruler Musa Beg"?

Smyrnacoins » 1-July-2022 11:45am

Dear Charm,

I just saw your message, I mean previous ruler Musa Beg not the last ruler of Karamanids.
My mistake, sorry for that.

Kerimuddin Karaman 645-660 AH.
Semseddin Mehmed 660-676 AH.
Güneri Bey 676-699 AH.
Mahmud Bey 699-711 AH.
Musa Bey 711-717 AH. / 753-757 AH.
ibrahim I 717-731 AH. / 740-744 AH.
Sucaeddin Halil 731-740 AH.
Fahreddin Ahmed 744-750 AH.
Semseddin 750-752 AH.
Seyfeddin Suleyman 757-762 AH.
Alaeddin Ali Bey 762-800 AH.
Erhan Bey 800-805 AH.
Mehmed II 805-822 AH. / 824-826 AH.
Ali Bengi 822-824 AH.
ibrahim II 824 AH. / 827-868 AH.
ishak Bey 868-869 AH.
Pir Ahmed 869-871 AH.

charm » 1-July-2022 11:46am

charm » 1-July-2022 11:48am

Can you say something about classification of next types?
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=195502
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=193852
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=181186

Smyrnacoins » 1-July-2022 12:00pm

continuation of the text:

Ala al-Din Beg, in his stay in Konya, started to act independent from his elder brother; first he wanted to punish the jufge of Beysehir, ismail Agha from Mongols, who supported Mehmed Beg and he conquered Beysehir and it's around. Later on, he sent a word to Ankara, ilgin and ishakli, which were also ruled by Mongols and wanted the coins and the hutbah to be made in his name during when Sulayman Beg was still alive. In most cases, Sulayman Beg was always the conciliator and he did not react against Ala al-Din too much. Meanwhile, we understand that, Ala al-Din Beg was in Konya and Sulayman Beg was in Larende. If we consider the historical process, these cases must have happened in the year 762 AH. / 1361 CE. when Sulayman Beg died.

sma » 1-July-2022 8:49pm

I do not see why this piece is assigned to Sulayman. Does any exist with clear date AH 761? The coin is in the name of the Mamluk ruler al-Nasir Nasir al-Din (Muhammad ca. 698-741 or Hasan 748-752 & 755-762), and it is certainly likely that one of the Beyliks recognised the Mamluk al-Nasir as nominal overlord.

charm » 1-July-2022 8:51pm

More coins i.n.o. Mamluk ruler al-Nasir Nasir al-Din: 251777, 181186, 214801.

Kazakhan » 1-July-2022 11:30pm

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=214801
Üstad SMA, this coin has the same al-Nasr name, but this is not a fully understood coin either. Another example of this was found in the same place.

Smyrnacoins » 2-July-2022 8:05am

for clear mint name and the date, please check

Reference: Husnu Ozturk - Halûk Perk, Karaman Ogullari Beyligi Sikkeleri Karamanid Coins, Cilt 2 istanbul 2013, p.203, nr: 98

charm » 2-July-2022 10:15am

One more image (thanks to Smyrnacoins):

Smyrnacoins » 2-July-2022 10:21am

Dear Charm,

Thank you